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July 24, 2008 |
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KING DIAMOND - Part I
October 8, 2004
By Tony Antunovich
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All hail the return of the King! Following up the success of "The Puppet Master", legendary Danish-born KING DIAMOND has returned with a brand new live album, "Deadly Lullabyes Live", which features recordings from last year's U.S. tour. I had the opportunity to speak with King from his home in Dallas, Texas this past Friday, October 8, 2004. During our lengthy conversation, King and I talked about several topics, including the new live album, vocalist Livia Zita, his long friendship with Andy La Rocque, the Geraldo Rivera incident, and much more. The interview IS a long read, but for anyone who is keenly interested in stepping into the world of KING DIAMOND, you will find this first of a two-part interview most insightful.
First of all King, I just want to tell you that it is a real pleasure to be speaking with you today and I thank you for it.
Thank you very much!
The new live album, "Deadly Lullabyes Live", has just been released and I must say it is one of the best live albums I have heard in a very long time.
Thank you so much!
It covers a wide variety of your songs from throughout the years and the sound quality is excellent. Personally, I think that is what makes it one of the best live albums ever.
Oh man, that's awesome to hear! There are a lot of things we did that I think are a little different than maybe what you will hear on a majority of live albums. First of all, it's been long overdue and about time that we had what I call a real "live album" out. You know, we had the one in '87, "Abigail Live", which was something that we had no control over, really. Those songs that are on there were recorded back in '87, but they were recorded just for own pleasure - through the mixing desk, but going straight to a cassette deck. So, we just had cassette versions of those songs. We couldn't do anything; we couldn't mix the audience up or down or set the balance between the guitar and bass or anything, you know.
It felt like it was really a half-assed live album but it was also part of getting out of a deal.... but it's cool for what it is, I think. It has its own charm.... but this time it's like "Hey, now we can finally actually mix an album - control how loud we want the vocals in the mix and the guitars and all these things between each other. So that was nice and several things then suddenly face you. We haven't done this before. We are used to doing all these studio albums where you can have as many guitars as you want, eight vocals, whatever. Suddenly, now it's like "raw" and "bare" (laughs), because you only have those instruments that you have on stage.
We listened to other live albums to see what they do and there was one thing that we didn't want to do, and that was to try and make ourselves bigger than we are. That was the first thing. We wanted to create those types of rooms that we're playing in on tour, which are, for the majority, theaters - 1200-1800 seat theaters. I think we really got that sound on this album as well. It really does sound like that, because that you can only control by how you would add reverb, because you just have dry recordings of everything. You don't have the "room" in your recordings when you're recording live. It's as if you were in a studio recording and then you have to create the environment afterwards, and I think we really caught that environment there. Another thing that was very important for this album was asking the question "How do you let the audience speak?", and I'm sure you have noticed that on many live albums too.
Once the music starts playing, they turn the audience down and you just hear what sounds like the band playing in a hall. We didn't do that. We just felt that it would sound so wrong if we would try and mix the audience in and out of a song. There are too many places we play live where the audience sings along in choruses and responds to certain things that happen on stage. You can't just sit and suddenly turn up those places where you wanted (makes roaring crowd sound), and then it's back down to nothing again. So, we actually were more or less forced to leave the audience at the same level the whole way, which was a good thing. That is what makes it really rare - those who enter the shows, when they listen to it at home - this really has turned out to be the second best thing to actually being there.
When you are at a concert and you're standing being blasted by a real PA, it's always going to sound different than it does in your living room, but I really think this is the second best thing because you hear the dynamics of the audience. There are certain choruses where they don't sing as loud as maybe we would have liked (laughs), but it was all left like that. It is as it is live, you know. They don’t sing along with the same strength in all choruses; they are a little louder in certain songs like "Eye Of The Witch" or whatever, and by just leaving the audience and letting them be heard throughout the music, it just made it even more authentic. When you're at the show, you will sometimes hear these weird responses coming out of nowhere.
It doesn't seem like they fit, but when you're at the show it's like "Ahh, that's where he got out of the wheelchair" in "The Invisible Guests" for instance. I always make this gesture.... a hand up to my ear. I don't say "Let me hear you!". Sometimes I do, but it's just a hand up to the ear. Then, you suddenly hear a response and it's like "What happened there?", but if you are at the show, you know exactly what happened because it's all there. I think those are some of the things that are different from some other live albums that you hear, whereas this one is, in that respect, for the fans, very authentic. They can really picture themselves having been at these shows.
I agree and I think this album really gives the listener that opportunity to feel like they are actually "there".
Yeah. You do hear that all the time. That was one of the most important decisions we made for this. The fans are so involved in our shows that it would be insane to cut them out. That would be wrong! It would sound wrong because that's not what happens at our shows. Another thing that was interesting for me is that this was the first time with a live album where we could sit and mix it. There are a lot of things that go into the procedure - "How far out in the stereo panning do we put the guitars?" That was one of the difficult things for us to do actually. You couldn't set them to hard left right, which we often do with the rhythm guitars on studio albums. Let's say Andy (La Rocque) starts a solo then suddenly, you only have the rest of the guys doing the rhythm section. It seems like the solo just got lost in its own little space and didn't belong with the rest of it when it was at hard right, for instance, and the rest of it was somewhere left and in the middle.
So, we had to find the right panning - you know.... how far into the stereo pitch did we need to put the guitars so that even when there is a solo, they still sound like they belong in the whole thing. Then, by adding a certain delay every time they have solos, which is also done live anyway, it filled out that little gap that might have been there if we didn't do it. But you suddenly realize that you don't have all of these things that you have when you record a studio album. So, you really have to be careful how you set the whole thing up so that you don't have to sit and pan a guitar in and out whenever there is a solo or something like that. That would be such a mess to work with. So, finding that right setup that worked throughout the whole album was difficult. I think it worked, but it took some time to get it right.
Another funny thing is that I realized when I listened to these things and when we were setting it all up for the mix, I found out that Andy has a tendency to hold a long note to find the right spot to get back into playing rhythm when he finishes his solos, specifically the faster solos. You know what I mean? When he plays a solo, he finishes it at the start of the verse and you hear this (makes whining guitar sound) long hanging note. Subconsciously, on stage, I am practically in the same spot throughout the different songs from night to night.... and now I was sitting here listening to it and I'm like "Oh, now I know why I'm over at Mike's (Wead) side at the part when that verse starts!". If I stand on Andy's side, I can only hear this long hanging note, and I can't sing a verse because I have nothing to go by. So, it suddenly became clear to me why I move over to Mike's side when that verse starts after that long solo. But it's funny because I don’t think about that, you know.
I guess I've gotten used to the songs on stage and I just move to Mike's side if there is one of those solos where Andy has that tendency to hold a long note. Mike doesn't do that very often. It's just funny what you realize when you suddenly sit down with this for the first time because we haven't done it before. I don't think anything bad about Andy for holding those long notes, you know. Sometimes it sounds really cool, but you can imagine it if you stood on that side. Up on stage, you don’t hear the same pitch as you hear out in the hall, and it can be very difficult to hear the riff going on there on the opposite side of the stage - when you are standing being blasted by Andy's back line on his side. Yeah, it was interesting. A lot of new aspects came up.
Hungarian vocalist Livia Zita sang the female parts on "The Puppet Master" as well as on the new live album. She has a really beautiful voice! How did you discover her, King?
Oh man, it was coincidental. I was doing interviews for "Abigail II". She's from Budapest, Hungary and she was studying in Michigan, U.S.A. at that time and she did an interview for Metal Hammer Hungary regarding "Abigail II". During that interview, she mentioned that she was a singer and she had a demo that she wanted to send to me if I didn't mind. I said "Sure, you can send that. No problem.". She actually had gone into a studio and sang a NIGHTWISH song - one of the ballads - and I had never heard the original NIGHTWISH version. Still, it was fine to hear exactly what she could do and I was blown away when I heard it. Oh my God - what feeling she can put into her vocals. That was pretty much it until I started writing "The Puppet Master", where it became more and more clear to me that it would be awesome if there could be a female vocalist in the story to actually portray the part of "Victoria" because it was quite a big part.
I felt like it would be more theatrical and personal if it was sung by a female vocalist because then you can get that feeling instead of me singing "and then she looked at him this or that way" and "then she felt this and that". You can hear a female voice singing "I feel this and that when I look at him this way", you know. It becomes much closer to the listener. I thought to myself "I've got to do it this time, man. It'll be so much more theatrical.". She was, of course, the first one the popped into mind. I sent the demo to some of the other guys in the band so they could hear it. I sent it to the record label too, and when they heard it, they all said "Man, you should try it.". I don't think we are gambling with KING DIAMOND's style just because of that. The style would never really change because of that. This would be more like an enhancement for the theatrical aspect of one of our albums, and that's also how it was received.
It was a really cool new aspect that was added to the whole theatrical feel of it, and when we went on tour, you hear her doing her parts in "The Puppet Master" songs on the live album too, and she also does a few other things. There is not a whole lot she does on the other songs, but there is something here and there. Specifically, I would say you can hear her on the "Abigail II" songs, and those songs were actually essential for us to do, especially the song "A Mansion In Sorrow". After the first chorus and verse start, that's where the problem was when we were talking about playing it live, because on the album, there is my low normal raw voice coupled with a low falsetto voice. Those two together create the right feel for the beginning verse of the song. If you take one of them away, it simply doesn't work. If you didn't have that low falsetto on top of my raw normal voice, it would sound strange.
It would not capture the feel that it needs. If it was only the low falsetto, you would absolutely miss that low normal voice. With Livia's voice, her falsetto parts are similar to such a degree that she could take the lower falsetto while I sang the raw normal voice for that little part. There are a couple places where she would do some harmonies with me for certain parts.... not in the very beginning, but close to the beginning of "Spirits" as well. There are some harmony parts there where we are both singing falsettos. So we worked out a lot of these little things for certain songs, but mainly "The Puppet Master" and the "Abigail 2" songs. In "Spirits", she sang the choruses together with me because it just sounded more like it is on the album. I think it also added that little extra cool aspect on stage too.
It does, and you can really hear the clarity of her voice, along with yours, in each of the songs that she sings on. Will she be appearing on the next KING DIAMOND album, King?
Nothing has been decided yet, but I would love to because it worked so well the last time and it gives me the opportunity to go more theatrical. It absolutely does! I mean, it would have been hard to do. Could you imagine having done "The Puppet Master" and me singing everything? The story would not have had the effects that it has now had I been the one singing her part "and then she couldn't see me anymore" instead of her singing "I can't see you anymore?". It's so much more powerful when you hear it with a female voice because it's a female character. It's so much more effective. The two voices really compliment each other well and it never changes the style of KING DIAMOND. I mean, that would never be allowed (laughs). It adds a very interesting enhancement to the whole thing, actually. I would love if it fits in the next story - definitely! I think it was a great thing that happened there.
Speaking of your voice, King, it is very distinct and differs from anyone else in the metal scene. Did you have any vocal training?
No. I've never had one single lesson in music, period. I can't read music either. I mean, I write 75 percent of KING DIAMOND's music, but I can't read music at all. I barely know what an "A" and an "E" is on a guitar. That's where it stops for me. But hey, I have not had the need to know these things, you know. Sometimes when the other guys sit and have to figure out my arrangements, it's like "Was that D-minor or whatever it's called?"...."Look - here it is on the guitar. This is what I am doing here. This is the type of chord I take. The other side is playing a harmony and playing a note down here.".... "Ohhhh! That's how it is. I thought it was one big chord.".... "No, no. It's a combined chord between the two sides that gives a certain sound." The keyboard playing too, you know, I have NO training whatsoever. It's feel and ear, that's all.
Well, you are so talented, King! I don’t think there is a need for you to read music (laughs).
If I start learning music, I think I would probably be hampered maybe. There would be.... "No. You don't put those notes together!".... "Hey, but if it sounds good... if it gives the right feel.... why not?".... "Ah, you don't really do that theoretically. It's wrong!". So, I don't have those things against me.
How do you maintain your voice? Is there anything you do to keep it healthy?
I smoke a lot of cigarettes and drink a lot of coffee (laughs).
(Laughs)
I don't do anything specific at all. I never did. When we're out touring, I stay away from alcohol because that doesn't work. So, if you ever see me drink a beer on a tour, it would probably be on an off day - one beer during a nice dinner. If I could find a nice restaurant or something like that, then I might enjoy a beer, you know, but that might be two beers on an entire tour. That would be the max you would see me have on a tour because I know it's not good for the voice. It doesn't work. You can work with a lot of other vocal styles, but with mine, I know from experience that it doesn't work with my vocal chords. They do not receive that well.
Andy La Rocque has been with you pretty much since the beginning and has played a major role in the production of your albums ever since. How has your working relationship been with him over the years? You guys certainly must be very good friends.
Oh, it's absolutely amazing! There is such a high level of both personal and professional respect between us and that's why it's still working so great. When we finished mixing this last album, it was the same feel again. You know, we work EXTREMELY hard when we work together - 12 hours a day! That's what we do when we are mixing or recording. It's 12 hours a day full blast ahead and go to the supermarket and get some food. That's how we've always done it and we still do it that way. We've both gotten better; we have better ears. Andy has his own studio in Sweden where a lot of albums have been recorded and we use his gear here at my house. It's not like we are recording on home studio equipment. It's top pro gear. We fly all his best gear over from Sweden to my house in Dallas and turn my living room into a studio, and that has proved to be very fruitful.
The first time we did that was when we did "The Puppet Master", where we recorded all written guitars, keyboards, and bass here at the house. Then, we went into Nomad recording studio to record the drums and the vocals, and then we mixed the album here at my house as well. The big benefit is we like to go into details and we will not sacrifice the quality by jumping low fences just because we are on the clock all the time in the studio, for instance. It can be frustrating to sit and fight with a reverb unit and not being able to find the right effect that you want it to be on maybe just five words. But we do it because it has to be right, and to sit down and spend two hours, you feel like money is just flying out the window, you know. You don't have that pressure on you. It doesn't cost extra. It's a matter of our will and how much of perfectionists we both are.
We go all out! We research all our options for things that we want to sound in a certain way. That's been a big advantage, as well as the mixing process, and you hear that both on "The Puppet Master" and the live album because they were both mixed here at my home. You're in an environment with top professional gear, but when you think about it, we are sitting here.... there are carpets and furniture - exactly like in the homes where people are going to listen to it later, and that means so much. Everything that we change.... every knob we turn when we hear the difference, I know that that's what people are going to hear in their homes. They're not going to listen to the album in a studio environment where there are hardwood floors, these special bass traps coming out of the wall or rooms that are designed so that frequencies will bounce in a certain way. No one is going to listen to it in that environment, you know.
Many times I have experienced where we set up an initial mix sound for an album in the studio, and the next morning before you go back to the studio, you think you've got everything right. You listen to it on your home stereo and you feel like "What??? Where's the treble? Where did the bottom go?". You can get so cheated, and then you go into the studio with your notes and this and that. Then you listen to it and it's like "Hmmm. No, it's all there!". What do you do then? Make some sort of a compromise? It's very hard to sit there and turn knobs and guess what it's going to sound like at somebody else's place. But when you are in that home environment, we realized that when we did "The Puppet Master", it was like "Hey, man! This is exactly what it's going to sound like in people's homes!".
We were so confident. With ever very turn of a knob, we knew that what we heard, other people would hear too, and that meant the difference between getting a product that was exactly like we wanted it to be or something that we had just guessed our way in to.
It also turned out to be the best-sounding KING DIAMOND album that we ever had in our career - "The Puppet Master" definitely has the best sound that we've had. Also, with the live album, I think it sounds really good, frequency-wise, from top to bottom. It's all there in a pleasant way. You never get hit by sharp treble or it never gets drowned out by boomy bottom or something like that. That all comes back to doing it that way, and that's why, again, Andy and I have been working perfectly together. Put it this way - neither of us would have reached those results on our own. We could have done well on our own, but together, we just click. We really get the best result. It is amazing when you look at it because it has been a lot of years and we have never had problems of any kind. It's just actually gotten stronger and stronger, you know.... that friendship and relationship. It's just a mutual respect. It has probably everything to do with as being both people and professionals.
We respect each other extremely highly. We can talk about anything, even if it's very close-knit family things that would normally not go outside your private four falls. Nothing has to be a secret there, you know. That is just like a very close-knit friendship, and when that carries into the professional aspect of it all, the work part of it, it's easy. It makes it a lot of fun, even when it gets tough and you are up against technical problems sometimes, and because of that relationship and cooperation, we solve them ever damn time.
The close friendship that you and Andy have must make it much easier and more solid when it comes to the recording process.
It absolutely does! There is nothing sacred. I mean, I'll tell him if I think one of his solos suck; he'll tell me if he thinks a chorus is totally out of tune.... if it doesn't fit the song, or whatever. If he feels some of the harmonies are bad, he might say "You know what? That doesn't sound too pleasing!". Then I can explain to him "It's not meant to sound pleasing. This is my point!". Then, he might see my point, and if he doesn't see my point, he's not going to say "Ah, okay.". He's going to say "Well, I still don’t see it. I'm sorry, pal." So, that's part of the professional side of it too. You can say anything to each other and neither of us get offended. Neither of us are going to say things to the other just to bring that person down (laughs), you know. We only say things to each other for the best of the project, always. We can totally say those things to each other without anyone taking it the wrong way, and that is also for the best of the project. Naturally, it is.
King, I'd like to ask you about the writing process .Where do you get your inspiration to write the stories for your albums from?
Man, if I knew, I would go there every time (laughs). It varies a lot I think. A lot of it comes from inside. Every story will have some climaxes and those things can come from anything that I've experienced myself, but it could be something that was experienced in a whole different context, and I will then change it to fit into a new context. With "The Puppet Master", for instance, there are different things that come to mind. I don't always know where it comes from but I always have very open eyes and ears, and an open mind. It's almost pathetic where it comes from. It creates an inner feeling in me sometimes. You know, most of the KING DIAMOND stories are very concentrated on the interaction between human beings.... how we treat each other in these stressful situations.... how the mind works in these weird situations. Those come from every day things like going to the bank and parking outside - there are a lot of cars and you see this handicap spot.
Of course, wrong and right is so individual from person to person depending on their needs and own justifications. One guy will park there without blinking and say that he is going to be there for 5 minutes. Another guy will say "You're kidding. You can't do that! - and by the way, it's not legal!" There are other situations like "Why do Jimmy's parents dress him up in a pink t-shirt when he goes to school? They should know that he's going to be the laughing stock at school today." Is it wrong of them to do it? No one can say that it's wrong. They might be just "pink" lovers, and for that reason, it's right for them to do it, even if Jimmy is going to hurt a little at school. Other parents will say "Man, what they're doing is horrible. It's so wrong!" - but there is no law in that situation that says what is right and wrong. It's all individual. Other people's lives are just as important as your own life. They have just as big a universe that they live in as you or I have.
I mean, when I wake up in the morning, I see certain things through my windows. If I had to go to a working place, I would maybe get on a bus or drive a car through a different environment, see certain trees, wave to certain people or whatever. So, there are different impressions going through your eyes and ears, which create feelings inside your body and all that creates your life. Your viewpoints and all this stuff has so much to do with how you live your life and what you experience, and every single one of us on this earth has that big universe that we live in. It's actually pretty wild to think about it, and those things pop up in my mind so often, you know.... "Well, these people have just as much right to make their decisions as this other person over here, even though they are going by totally different decisions". Lives are so interesting and so different from person to person.
Often you will realize that there is that lack of respect and it's sometimes because we don't want to be bothered or make the effort to understand that there could be another justified side to this opinion that you might have about something.
There is a lot of that stuff in the KING DIAMOND songs and it is mixed in with a little bit of the occult too. In "The Puppet Master", for instance, you have two perfect love stories in that one album.... two people that fit perfectly - my character and Victoria's. In the beginning, it's taken them one year to build up what is just the ultimate, perfect love between two human beings, and it's totally killed in the story and ends with this negative tragedy like our stories have been before. Normally I will win or I'll get revenge at the end, but this time around, no! The bad wins this time! The love between the "puppet master" and his big wife is just as perfect. They could never achieve what they are doing, even though they are criminals, but without each other, they could never have achieved the success they achieve in the end. They are more successful than ever and are going to have these kids that are going to take over this newly-built puppet theater in London.
They love each other for different reasons, but just as much as my character and Victoria's. So, is one of the two loves better than the other? No, but they have arisen from different backgrounds. You will not like the puppet master and his wife because they are total criminals, but the love between them is as pure as it can get.
To me, the human mind.... human beings.... it's a never-ending ocean of inspiration and ideas. I mean, trying to picture situations where choices are just so hard to make. It could be a choice for a dad. Is he going to be able to take his daughter's life if it's best for her? It would be horrifying to be put in a situation like that where you've got to make that choice. She might not even be a child. She might be a 17-year old grown up daughter, begging the father because of the situation they are in - "You've got to kill me now. I do not want to experience that thing that we all know is coming.".... and he would have to make that choice. Can he do this? What kind of love does it take to make that sacrifice? - to hurt inside that badly that you actually take your own kid's life.... so they do not suffer. Those things could pop up in a future story. Absolutely! If it's described in the right way it could be one of the climaxes in the story - Is this guy going to do this or not?
Is he going to be able to do this and face the horrible consequences of it?". We are not talking about murder here; you know what I'm talking about. Those things fascinate me and I like to raise those questions and then see what people will feel - what side are they going to take? If you can present it strongly enough theatrically, it's that much more realistic. Then we have the occult element.... I've always been fascinated by the occult and have not wavered away from that one bit. So, those elements, and the horror of these situations are what it's all built around. There are so many things that you can grab on to, but it has to be something from myself, where I would say "Oh my god!" if I was in that situation, if it gives me the creeps, or the hair would stand up on my arm and I would be sad before I even have to write about it.
It could often be something that I can relate to, like the way I lost one of my cats. That's the song "So Sad". I can tell you that when I hear the first few notes of that keyboard, I get a lump in my throat, every single time. That was written for Ghost, the cat I lost, who was the best friend I've ever had while I've been here in America. Some of my human friends might say "What?" (laughs), but that's a fact. Losing him and the way I lost that cat.... I don't even want to tell you about it. That emotion is in the song. 90 percent of the lyrics should have been said to a "he" instead of a "she" because Ghost was a male cat. Only 10 percent of those lyrics were written with a purpose to continue the story because I had that essence of it there as well.
So, I search my inner self and my emotions, and that's where it's taken from. A lot of the feelings that I talk about are basic because if you put almost anybody in that situation, they will all experience that kind of feeling. If you sit there and listen to the song "So Sad" and read the lyrics, I'll bet you that 95 percent of those people that listen to it have had some situation in their lives that is relative to the lyrics. Whether it is a family member that was lost or a girlfriend/boyfriend that left for someone else or whatever.... that loss of closeness, friendship, and love too, in some instances, is the same for everyone. Almost everybody can relate to that kind of situation.
Your albums have always been concept albums. How easy or how difficult is it to continue being creative when it comes to writing lyrics for those types of albums?
The complexity has something to do with it. For "The Puppet Master", I had to go in and change certain chapters in my short story to make everything fit. That's kind of common and there were quite a few things there where I got a little stuck sometimes because of the complexity of how the whole procedure would be in a way that I could explain it. Why do my eyes see and none of the others' eyes can see? Why are my eyes eternal? I had to go back in and change the ritual that the puppet master does with me - in my soul - to make sure I could interrupt it and he would speak words that didn’t belong in that ritual. That way, the effect of the ritual would change.
Those kinds of things can be challenging sometimes. I had to go through the story over and over to make sure that no one can raise any kind if question that I can't answer. I had to be able to answer any question anyone might have about the story. I've got to have the answer for everything, and that's the difficult part because you have to scrutinize your own stuff and try to really question everything I say in the story to make sure that it all fits. That's probably the hardest part.
King, I remember seeing you on a television show a long time ago back in the '80s. I think it was around 1988 on a televised report from Geraldo Rivera about Satan in heavy metal. Do you remember that?
Yeah, yeah (laughs).
It was so long ago, but I just wanted to mention it. Just to clear up any misconceptions that may be out there, how do you think people perceive you in heavy metal?
There must be so many different ways that people see me. Now and then, rumors pop up and some of them are totally not worth the response. Others make me say "Where did they get that from?", and other rumors are understandable. People that have never talked to me will have a hard time understanding where I am coming from. What they see and hear is what's on the albums. If you are not the kind of person that likes to go deep into lyrics but you just want them to have something to sing along with, they are probably the ones that will have a harder time getting close to what kind of person I am. They will not see the problems or questions that are raised in the stories and might take most of the words literally and will think "Oh god. This guy is just into horror and gore and stuff like that. That must be what he likes. If he could, he would probably run around and kill people." But you can't do that, of course. That's against the law. You never know what comes up in people's minds.
Then, they see the photos, and for the most part, it's with the make-up on. There have been plenty of photos taken without it for magazines, but those are usually not the ones people memorize. I can imagine that there must be so many different viewpoints on me out there, not just the real viewpoint, I'm sure. I don't think people will ever be (laughs) getting the chance to see the real me. You can get a good impression of me because we are talking on the phone like this, but you can't see me; you can't see my gestures; you can't look at me and see the sincerity in my eye and stuff like that. If you could, you would know me even better, of course.
KING DIAMOND is very much me! Even when you talk about going on stage and stuff like that, I totally know what I'm doing. It's not like I am suddenly possessed by this weirdo. It's just another extension of me - kind of like KING DIAMOND could be my right arm and Kim Petersen is the left arm - all part of the same. I would love to go to the grocery store in full make-up and freak people out, but I know it's not possible. I'd get arrested so quickly, but man, it would be fun. I am also living in a logical way. It's not going to do anything good so, I won't do that, of course. I'm not going to mow my lawn in make-up. That would be a hassle. I would be the freak of the street if I did that and would probably get arrested. You've got to live in a logical way.
So, there are limits to all of this, but it is all part of me. It's almost like I have a nice outlet. I don't need a psychiatrist because that KING DIAMOND side of me takes care of all that (laughs). In some way, it's great to have that outlet for those kinds of feelings.
Regarding Geraldo Rivera, I think he is an amazing journalist and I have the highest respect for him. I watch his programs on Fox news time and again. I always think he is very much on the spot, but what he did there back then.... that show he had was all based on sensationalism. That was not like a serious news program, so he would have had to have a different approach to things. Certainly, there are people out there that are doing some of the things that he portrayed there, I am sure. Those people should not be in this world. They should be locked up somewhere. He was desperately searching for something weird with us too. I never talked to him. He sent a crew down to Florida where we were at the time and they shot a little bit of our show and then they actually shot a 45 minute interview with me where he used, as you have probably seen, maybe 8 seconds and then he said "Bull".
That was what was shown of it and the reason for that is he picked one line that he could say "Bull" to, but I make too much sense, you know. I could explain everything to every question they had about all this stuff, and it made too much sense to them. There was no sensationalism in what I said. It was like "We don't need someone to explain this in a good way. We don't want that. We want someone to be a freak so we can have a freak show.", and we didn't belong in there. So, that's why it was kind of sad that they could not use a lot more of it because then everything would have made so much more sense there. It became nothing instead.
I just want to make a quick comment. Personally, I totally agree with what you said about that Geraldo Rivera report. I think it was totally based on sensationalism.
Do you remember he was trying to open Al Capone's safe?
Yes (laughs).
The thing was hyped to the max. Actually, now that he's gone into serious stuff, I have the highest respect for the guy. At that time, I could see right through what was going on and I just felt like "Oh too bad", because it would have been nice if we could have shown the right side of things instead of the sensationalism or whatever you want to call that type of program. But he is a very skilled journalist, man. He puts his ass on the line and he gets the stories. I actually enjoy watching him today, but I am not the guy that was around holding grudges against people just because of a thing like that. That will not happen. Gene Simmons once tried to sue us over make-up and that doesn’t make me say "Ah, KISS - I don't like them." - not at all! I used to like KISS a lot. I'm not into their music that much these days, but I like the old version of KISS and still like to listen to that today.
I have no grudges against people. I find that it's a waste of good energy to do those kinds of things. What would that serve? I have the highest respect for Gene Simmons, regardless off whether he tried to sue me or not. Nothing came of it and it was all fine. You've got to look at things in the right positive light. It's much better than running around being negative.
Just one quick question before we end Part 1. How has working with Metal Blade been for you over the years?
Oh, it's a good experience. It's good to be one of the top names on a label because you get a lot more attention than if you were signed to a major label and were #200 on their roster because then I can tell you, they wouldn't lift a finger for you. You have much more going for you being at the top of a smaller label. So, that's been a good experience and it still is a good experience. It's a good experience with Massacre (Records) in Europe too. We have full backup. They will do whatever is within their power because we are one of their most important acts. Had we signed to one of those major labels, I can't say that we wouldn't have gotten the attention. You don't know that, but there is a chance. A lot of bands have been signed to major labels and you never heard of them.
A tendency with the major labels sometimes is that they will release an album and not put in a big effort or a lot of money behind it because they want to see if the thing is going to show potential by itself. If suddenly an album starts selling and starts getting airplay without even lifting a finger, they will say "Oh, we have something here maybe. Let's start putting some money into it.". They need big write-offs in their buckets and they use a lot of those. It's like playing the lottery - you choose a lot of numbers and hope that just a few of them come through. That's what it is for them, I'm sure. Those bands that are in the "top 10 roster" are the ones that get the attention. In my experience, not having been signed to a major label, but have heard plenty of stories from some people I know, you can usually even be one of those top bands.
But if at some point the rep that signed you to the label is, for some reason, fired from that label, you very often go with the rep and lose your deal. The uncertainty is big. It depends on what level you are at. If you can get in that top ten on the roster, then you are probably very well off being with a major label. If you can't, then you are much better off being in the top part of the roster with a smaller label for sure.
I'm really glad to hear that it's worked out well with Metal Blade.
Oh, absolutely! We've been with them for many years now. It's been ten years, you know.
That is a long time. Hopefully the relationship continues into the future.
Yeah. I don't see why it wouldn't.
We have a healthy relationship and we understand each other. If there are problems, we talk to each other. We don't let it get out of hand. We talk before the problems get too big and then we solve them. I also have the best music lawyer you could dream of – Ron Bienstock, a guy from New York who I have worked with ever since I set foot in America in '92.... ever since I moved to Dallas here. That relationship is still going stronger than ever. He's an awesome guy. He knows his entertainment law and I've just been blessed to have that relationship where we totally trust each other. It's also very important for making sure that you don't get a bad deal suddenly.
The business has a reputation for being tough and you can risk it if you don't know the business. A label will stand with one arm around your shoulder saying "Man, you're so cool", and their other hand is in your pocket fishing back the money they gave you. It can be so rotten. I guess most businesses can be rotten once you get into the monetary part of it. In this business, I have certainly seen many things. Even blackmail is not unheard of (laughs) - I can tell you that.
King, I want to thank you very much for taking time to speak with us today.
We will continue.
I look forward to it, King!
It was a pleasure talking to you. [FIN]
» Official KING DIAMOND Website
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