The Bay Area hosts a vibrant music community, so it should come as no surprise that they also have a rather high number of truly excellent Metal bands. From the classic acts like EXODUS and TESTAMENT to newer (by comparison) bands like ASUNDER, HIGH ON FIRE and LUDICRA, the Bay Area plays a vital role within the Metal community. Having been working hard at their craft for a decade, LUDICRA have made a good name for themselves in the underground, releasing albums on Life Is Abuse and even the seminal Punk label, Alternative Tentacles. LUDICRA have always been a band to watch and it's about time the Metal community at large knows it.

Tell us about the new material.

Aesop - "We've been writing a lot, so we've got about a total of six new songs, three that are ready to play. There's sort of two different schools of thought, like some people think that we should stick to material that are on the records, but I'm for playing the new songs just to have an opportunity to go through them and sort of test them on audiences. As far as the direction of the new material, I think it's a little more intricate, a little more angular and... I don't want to say technical, 'cause I kind of hate that word, but it's..."

Laurie - "It's not mathy."

Aesop - "It's not mathy, but it's a little more involved than we've ever done before. But it also is sort of like harkening back to the first record a lot more, like blast beats and, you know, we sort of drifted away from quote-unquote 'Black Metal' on our last record, so it's kind of more coming back to the original intent of LUDICRA, but sort of filtered through the fact that we're better musicians and we understand the writing process better, so I think it's really good. I don't know if it will be the most instantly likeable material we've done, as with maybe the last record, it's not as simple and to the point, but kind of concentrating more on expansive arrangements. And we'll play three new songs tonight."

Laurie - "Yeah. Still feel a little wobbly playing the new songs, like as far as vocals and stuff."

Aesop - "We're still fine tuning."

Laurie - "I think the music sounds completely great in practice."

Aesop - "Awesome."

Laurie - "Yes, but I just have to get used to it more, I think, playing the live. And also, as far as recording for another album, we're just trying to accept that maybe it can be or should be a slow process. Like, we're not trying to rush, we're probably going to plan to record it in maybe May or June and just kind of... you know, time goes by so quickly, we try not to worry about getting out that album."

Aesop - "Yeah. I was going to say that in the past, we've sort of set these crazy deadlines for ourselves and I think we've made really good records, but I think they've always fallen short of our expectations. I mean, fans seem to like them, but I think that we haven't really wowed ourselves yet, we haven't really made the record that we really think we're capable of making. I think because we put pressure on ourselves, we book studio time and we're just not ready. So this time, we're sort of giving ourselves a little more time, allowing the songs to sort of, you know, write themselves a little more, rather than trying to pin this riff to that riff, it's more like we're trying to see what the songs tell us what they want. It's just sort of a different approach for us."

Laurie - "John (Cobbett, guitarist) said he would for it to be our 'Dark Side of the Moon', you know? (laughter)"

Aesop - "We always say that. 'This record! This one's going to be the one!''

Laurie - ''This one's going to be it!''

Aesop - "And then it's always just like a hair short of where we want it to be."

When you record the next album, it's going to be on Alternative Tentacles, right?

Aesop - "Um... we don't know. We don't know."

Laurie - "We might have another."

Aesop - "Yeah. Our future with them... we're not entirely unhappy, you know. In fact, we really like everyone who works there and they've been good to us, but there's some doubts as to whether it's the best fit for us at this point, 'cause I don't think they really have the sort of resources to promote a band like us. We've sort of... like when we travel with WOLVES (IN THE THRONE ROOM) and bands we're friends with, they're having very different experiences with their records than we are and I think a big part of that is because AT is this very different label and we're kind of unlike anything they've ever done before, but there's a lot of history there that we respect and we admire and they're really good to us. I just don't know that they really know how to approach a band like us."

Laurie - "And it's not like the 'labels to be on', you know, Metal, it's not like they've ever really come knocking at our door."

Aesop - "We've had a few, I mean..."

Laurie - "There are some possibilities for other labels..."

Aesop - "We have some long-running friends that we've been trying to do things with here and there and I think now we'll probably cash in those chips, you know."

Is there any possibility of 'Hollow Psalms' getting reissued in the near future?

Aesop - "Yes. A vinyl. We've been talking about doing a vinyl forever."

Laurie - "It doesn't fit on a vinyl."

Aesop - "It's a little long for a vinyl, so we're just trying to iron out how we can sequence it so it can fit on vinyl and how we can present the artwork and the whole booklet in that format. I mean, as soon as we get off our ass and lay all the shit out, it's gonna happen. Life Is Abuse, who issued it on CD, has been up our ass to do it for years."

Laurie - "Any more on CD, you think?"

Aesop - "I don't know. I mean, I'm personally not interested in reissuing it on CD. Just 'cause I think it's not a very... I don't know. I don't want to badmouth it, (laughter) but I'm more foreward thinking. I'd rather just concentrate on the next record than endless reissues, but the vinyl is important, 'cause we're record nerds ourselves and we like vinyl and that record does have a sort of really crazy, low fi analogue sound that I think it's meant for vinyl. We should've taken that into consideration when we recorded it."

Laurie - "We recorded it in our practice space at the time."

Aesop - "We should have definitely shortened it so we could have put it out on vinyl. There's a couple of things on there that don't necessarily need to be there, but they're there now, so they have to be part of it."

Laurie - "Flutes. (laughter)"

Aesop - "Flutes, but it's an interlude. (laughter)"

Laurie - "But I love that part!"

Aesop - "I know! It's like four minutes too long, five minutes too long. (laughter)"

Laurie - "Take up a couple minutes of it. (laughs)"

Aesop - "I don't want to do it like, 'oh!' You don't want to give people more for buying a CD. You don't want to reward them for that, so I... it's like, I'm always sort of against when CD's have extra things. It's like, don't reward somebody for buying this plasticy, shrunken digitized version. That's something where if we do do 'Hollow Psalms' on vinyl it might have extra stuff. It should be special."

Now for the lone political question - what are your thoughts on the rise of National Socialism within the Metal community?

Aesop - "Laurie might have a different opinion, but I'm sort of indifferent to it. I've come to accept that it's part of it and it's an unfortunate part for sure, but it's part of it and I've said it many times, you just have to accept that Black Metal is not this nicey-nice thing and it sometimes attracts that element. But for us, I think that as far as individuals, we're probably more left-leaning than most bands, but LUDICRA is not political concern for us, it's not a forum for our politics. LUDICRA's always been meant to be very personal, so we know it exists, but I still listen to certain bands, I sometimes watch what distros get my money and whatnot, but for the most part, there's plenty of Nationalist bands that I think are really, really amazing musically and there's plenty I think that just suck and they're just using that element as sort of this last taboo to bring attention to themselves when they don't have songs or music. I always mention this band I saw, I won't mention them by name, they're from L.A. and they came and played San Francisco and it was just like swastikas, gasmasks, self mutilation - like every cliche you could possibly have in a Black Metal band and no fucking songs to speak of. Not a memorable riff, not a memorable anything."

Laurie - "It's kind of like, if you're going to do it, do it right. The music's mediocre."

Aesop - "Yeah - it's just a smokescreen for mediocre music. But there are bands that I think that have political motives that I don't agree with that I still love - DRUDKH, KRODA and GRAVELAND. So I've just sort of come to accept it as part of the package."

Laurie - "I think you answered that perfectly."

Aesop - "Thank you."

Laurie - "I completely agree. I mean, there's always going to be... we used to joke 'the Metal police'. (laughter) There's always going to be a difference in views and beliefs in every genre."

Aesop - "Yeah. I mean, me and Laurie kind of came out of the Punk scene. And that was just something we watched happen in the Punk scene and it was unfortunate, but it's part of it. I'm more about personal accountability and I'm kind of a little too old to sit here and go 'well, this band is tied to this band and I can't support this band because they're friends with these people'. I can't really do that. I just take people on an individual basis and at the end of the day, it's entertainment, it's and it's art and if their art is valid and good, then I could give a rat's ass what their political views are."

What do you feel is the best show you've ever been a part of?

Laurie - "That WOLVES IN THE THRONE ROOM/GRAVES AT SEA show was amazing."

Aesop - "That was pretty amazing, yeah. We played GRAVES AT SEA, who are close friends of ours and who are a great band, they played one of their last shows. We played a show with them and WOLVES IN THE THRONE ROOM and it was at this venue that had sort of previously been unfriendly to Metal and certainly did not allow shitty little local bands to play and WOLVES got in there and brought us along and that was really great. We've had a couple shows... I think for us, it's probably coming up here - playing Seattle is always the highlight."

Laurie - "Seattle and Portland."

Aesop - "We've had a couple really good shows at Ground Kontrol here, they're hectic and everybody's right here, you know."

Laurie - "The first time we ever played Olympia. And that was like an earlier WOLVES show, too. The place that they run over there. That was a real eye opener for us, too 'cause the energy of the crowd and every little strange person who crawled out of the cracks to come to that show. I don't know - it was an amazing memory, like audience and band in unison. (laughs)."

Aesop - "San Francisco is like this weird sort of anamoly when you're in a band, too, where you could be playing your ass off and people will be totally loving you and you won't fucking know it, you know - you won't get anything from the crowd, they're very docile, so it's nice to come up here where people aren't so jaded and haven't seen everything or heard everything and are just willing to get into the cathartic experience of seeing a loud, good band play. We don't have that in San Francisco - it's a lot of just standing around with your arms folded and like, 'you are here to impress me - impress me!' You know?"

Laurie - "I've always felt that way when we play L.A., too."

Aesop - "L.A. is a lot like that, so getting up here it's just we find that audiences are just really, really rabid and cool."

Laurie - "Diverse. Oakland's always great, though. There's a lot more all ages, warehouses."

Aesop - "Oakland is drunk."

Laurie - "Oakland is wasted! (laughter)"

Aesop - "Oakland is drunk and it's very Punk and that's where the Punks go and see us."

Laurie - "Even Gilman, we played with DYSTOPIA."

Aesop - "That was probably the standout. That was the most people we've played."

Laurie - "Like five hundred people packed into Gilman."

Aesop - "Five or six hundred people. That's probably the most people LUDICRA's ever played to, so that was wild."

Laurie - "Yeah, we'd been lucky to play some memorable shows."

Aesop - "But in our town, if a big band comes through, like say if AMORPHIS or somebody comes through, we don't get those shows. We don't get asked to play those shows."

Laurie - "Yeah, it's like we don't exist."

Aesop - "We can't get on those bills."

Laurie - "Playing at Slim's is a bigger show with WOLVES and GRAVES, like for us, 'cause that was the first time we ever even played a larger venue where we weren't having to headline."

Aesop - "Yeah, That's been a big thing for us in San Francisco. We've had a pretty consistent draw, we're lucky that we've been around for ten years and we still draw a pretty good sized crowd, so a lot of promoters there will book a lackluster show and be like 'let's put LUDICRA on it' to get people to come, so we had o make a concious effort to stop doing that and just sort of play only there's a band that we're really good friends with or that we love."

Laurie - "Makes it much easier as we get older. (laughter)"

Aesop - "'Cause I think as it is now, it's sort of weird, 'cause it's almost like we've passed the torch onto SAROS in that way. Like, we've made ourselves less available, now they're playing all these kind of shows that we would have played, so it's sort of like we've vacated this spot and they're taking."

Laurie - "Luckily, there are other good bands like SAROS. That's the thing about the Bay Area."

Aesop - "Great bands, some of the best bands in the world, but not like responsive audiences, not a whole lot of great venues. A lot of apathy. I think it's this apathy that comes from having really great bands everywhere. I've heard people complain, I've had friends that are like, 'I don't know what to do tonight', like on Sunday, WOLVES IN THE THRONE ROOM are playing and two fucking doors down, AMORPHIS and SAMAEL are playing, and I know people that are complaining like, 'now I don't know what to do!' And it's like, if you lived in fucking Kenosha, you wouldn't have any choice. So people get kind of spoiled."

Laurie - "Definitely. I mean, we're spoiled. That's one of the reasons I stay - I stay for the music and my friends and my band. Every other aspect about that city... I mean, I love it there - it's home, but it's a struggle, you know? To come out here and when we were in Eugene and just be on someone's front porch with a lawn and trees and you're just 'ah!' I mean, maybe we'd be really bored..."

Aesop - "I think we would be."

Laurie - "...but it's still, like, I think you get really stuck in your ways and a little jaded there and a little spoiled."

Aesop - "But we've gone so far from your original question. (laughter)"

It's okay - I was just thinking how weird it was to hear people talk about Seattle audiences being really rabid and into it, 'cause every time I go up there and then come back down here, it's like we are so much more active here in Portland. The crowds in Seattle don't suck, but they don't get into it as much as we do in Portland.

Laurie - "Yes, I agree."

Aesop - "Portland is our favorite place in the country to play."

Laurie - "Definitely."

When do you feel you are at your most creative?

Aesop - "Probably when we're not inundated with preparing for shows. I think when we've got downtime and we don't have to worry about this gig or that gig, then we can just sort of relax to the writing process. LUDICRA is, I think, sort of unlike other bands in the fact that we write on the spot; like we go to practice and that's where we write. People don't really bring in stuff from home."

Laurie - "Sometimes."

Aesop - "Sometimes, but mainly it's just like, ideas are presented and worked out right then and there at the practice space. So I think when we feel that we don't have the pressure of some pending shows, we don't have practice old material and we can just, you know... But I think for us, it's also when we're in the studio. Once basic tracks are done, then we can start building walls of guitars and start thinking about how the vocals are going to go and whatnot. For me, personally, that's my favorite thing is like watching a record coming together."

Laurie - "There's all different kinds of times when I feel creative or excited or inspired. You know, the songs that they are working on, I bring the recording of it home or if I hear what they're writing and I'm like, 'oh, cool!' Like just feeling inspired in my head, imagining how I'm going to sing to it, you know, that kind of gets my creative flow going and then on the other hand, it could go either way, like if life has been shit and horrid things... you know, life's not going so well, things aren't happening - sometimes been the creative outlet for me. Kinda like there's something troubling going on in my life or whatever. Not that I can't be creative when everything's going smoothly and great and wonderful, but it kinda helps my mind open up a little more."

Aesop - "I was thinking back to 'Love Song', which I think is kind of maybe the pinnacle of our song-writing - not our best record, but probably some of the better songs we've written. And that record and all those songs were written under this time where we were all under complete fucking personal duress, whereas 'Fex' was not. 'Fex' was like this time where everything was kind of hunky-dory, but 'Loves Song' was written when there was a couple of bad breakups going on and there was a lot of personal drama in our lives."

Laurie - "A lot of bad choices, a lot of..."

Aesop - "A lot of stupid shit and I think it sort of did, at the end of the day, lend itself to making this really amazing record. I think it's some of Laurie's best lyric writing and I think it's some of the best..."

Laurie - "Really?"

Aesop - "Yeah, I just think about that record and it's very, like, there's two very different experiences, 'Love Song' and 'Fex', because it was this time of personal fucking..."

Laurie - "With 'Fex'... I don't know. It's funny, 'cause that one did seem more frustrating for me and harder to really... because the music is changing..."

Aesop - "Because you operate on pressure... well, no - you operate on misery. (laughter)"

Laurie - "I operate on misery?! Oh my god, what am I going to do now? (laughter) No, but I had trouble with that one."

Aesop - "We were eager to get into the studio, but it's like I was saying that the gist of what I'm saying is when we recorded 'Fex', it was like we were kind of settled into knowing what we do and we didn't have any of the anxieties that bands have around... second record, I think for any band - you make your first record, you're like 'great! Here's our first record, here's what we are' and then when you go into your second record, I think a lot of bands are blown away that they're making their second record and they get really excited and that's kind of where we were at, but we were also at this... something I observed is like, on a personal level... there was a couple of fucking divorces, unemployed, sketchy money issues..."

Laurie - "Ex crackhead boyfriend. You name it. (laughter)"

Aesop - "It was rough. So to answer your question, I think LUDICRA sort of thrives on bad vibes. 'Cause it's sort of like the aesthetic of what we do. I know bands have like, their trip and our trip has always sort of been this personal angst. That's sort of something that me and John have talked about, just the aesthetic of LUDICRA - it's a very feminine kind of angst, you know. Like Greek tragic brought into a modern context, the only kind of like anger and insanity - and this is going to sound really sexist..."

Laurie - "That's okay."

Aesop - "...insanity and hysterics and they could come from a feminine perspective, but we're not a feminist band, but we definitely do, like that's a big part of our trip is having women in the band. I've diverged so far from your original questions."

Laurie - "Well, it's okay - we all get along like family, brother sister, it's not like having girls in the band, you know what I mean? It's not even an issue for us. We're like family."

Okay, is there anything else you'd like to add?

Aesop - "No. Thanks for taking the time to pick our brains and all that and hang out."

Laurie - "We'll be back in Portland. We'll always come back." [FIN]